I would like to provide some context for the previous post’s discussion. It seems to me that, in some ways, we are debating the question: "just how sinful are the institutional church’s structures" and thus "how harsh should we be in judging it?"
I suggest we look at how we deal with "sin" on a personal level and the stages that we go through.
In our process of growth, there comes a time when God awakens us to the ugliness of a particular "sin" in our life. We suddenly become aware of how destructive and diabolical that area of our life has become. At this stage, as we begin to emerge from the lifestyle involving that sin, we see that sin everywhere, we are convicted by it, we are horrified by it. We become people who rant and rave at the sickness and terribleness of that sin.
Then, as we find freedom in that particular area, we find ourselves no longer in that "reactionary" place… in fact, we simply begin to go on with our life and don’t concern ourselves as much with that "sin" area because we are free of it and we are now busy building new and healthier patterns.
Finally, we get to the stage where we realize that we are not, and never will be, completely free from that sin. We have come out of some of the most destructive elements from it, but we humbly recognize that the "bentness" of that sin is within us and we know that we walk in a measure of freedom only by the grace of God. We are freed up, to a degree, from the sin but we don’t feel superior or prideful… simply grateful.
I suggest that, as we discuss the "sinfulness" or the "ugliness" of the institutional church, we may need to recognize where we are in the stages, and perhaps where others are.
When I first began to emerge out of the institutional church I saw the sinfulness of it everywhere: in me, in every church, in every gathering. I was horrified by the pride, the arrogance, the control, the systems that perpetuated greed, the mis-use of power, the pulling down of the dignity of the "lay" Christian. To me, it was and still is horrible. I needed to rant and rave… not to tear anyone else down… but to help free myself from the quagmire I had lived in.
Yet, I have also moved into the stage of a certain amount of freedom from some of that yuck and I am finding myself spending more time trying to build healthier patterns rather than trying to tear down or deconstruct what I came out of. However, I still find the voices of those who are ranting and raving against to be helpful. They remind me of those things that I do not want to return to. These are important prophetic voices.
I hope that I will come to the final stage of both humility (recognizing that the sin is still within me and that I will always struggle with the greed, pride, and control that plagues God’s church) along with the clarity that sin is sin and that freedom comes from turning from it.
My point is that we need both voices still. We need the prophetic voice that says “Sin is sin. Those sinful structures are horribly sinful.” We also need the forward-looking voice that says, “Let’s move beyond tearing down and let’s re-construct, by the grace of God, something that reflects Him in a greater way. Let’s remember our own sinfulness and walk in humility lest we fall into the same trap as before."
Comments
7 responses to “How Sinful are the Institutional Church’s Structures?”
For some reason, I sure am posting a lot on your blog! You’re just touching stuff that is meaningful to me!
I love that you wrote, “Let’s remember our own sinfulness and walk in humility lest we fall into the same trap as before.”
Amen! That is like music! 🙂
This clears up my initial question of “How can a structure sin?” People sin. Not structures. But I see what you intended, of course. Structures that emerge from sinful ambition need to be addressed. But the same structure in a different context, like say a large manufacturing enterprise, would not be sinful. But even arrogant, sinful people in that context would be a problem so again we go back to people, not structures.
Sin can be just as rampant in a simple house-church structure and even tolerated as much. It has happened more than we know because it is not high-profile. Sin is a product of the pride poisoning the structure, not the structure itself. The traditional organized church paradigm can be easily exploited in our CEO-success-cult western culture, but it can also be something altogether different and not-sinful when humility becomes its hallmark. It does have its proper place in the management of certain kinds of community service and programs. But if humility is truly the standard then the big program-based church will clearly be an optional accessory to Christian community and not its pinnacle or hub (which is what happens when pride enters in).
I agree whole-heartedly with your implied point that pride (which is the root of all sin) can just as easily, effectively and destructively infect our new simple structures.
I respect the persective you represent and your need for the dissenting voice. I was almost always an outsider in church. I was the “lay person” who was rarely given the time of day. It seemed that I was disenfranchised before I ever got there. So I don’t carry as much of a aversion to the structure as some of my good friends who were groomed as institutional pastors and church planters and had to deal with all the disillusionment and bitterness. This has allowed me to see that the structure itself is not sinful; but what went on within it. The use or misuse of the structure is sinful. The sinful misuse has been rampant, thus your aversion. Duct tape is a useful tool but if you were tied up with it and robbed or raped then duct tape might not set well with you. Emotionally speaking, you might feel it was sinful, much like many folks think that guns are sinful.
I counsel men in the area of sexual sin and addiction (idoltry) to pornography. It is common for a man who has been set free to go through a phase of thinking and feeling that sex is the problem. That sex is bad and sinful. I had one young man tell me that he has fortified himself against sin by learning to hate sex. Obviously there is an error in that logic. Sex is not the problem. The skewed use of it is the problem.
The root of sin in the church has been a lack of prayer. And a deficit of prayer would be the thing to poison organic house church as well. Prayer results in humility, Christlikeness and the fruit of the spirit. When God’s people are abiding in His presence, structures are rendered irrelevant. Finding the right structure will never solve our problem. Finding our total satisfaction and delight in Jesus in the secret place of prayer will be our only solution. If the house is not being built with prayer, regardles of its structure, then it is being built wrong. Proper obedience in the formation of structures will flow from the yeildedness that prayer brings.
I wholeheartedly agree with your comments regarding prayer and humility… and this is the most important point of the discussion! Yes and Yes to “Finding the right structure will never solve our problem” if our inner life is not in the right place.
I am provoked, though, by the comment “the structure itself is not sinful.” I think I know what you mean by that, but I want to think more on it.
I am even more provoked by the phrase “program-based church” as an “optional accessory to Christian community.” Personally, I am not against anything that God chooses to use… I acknowledge that God chooses to use donkeys and it’s not my place to be against what He continues to work through. But that doesn’t mean that I should not repent if I realize that I am behaving like a donkey rather than the human I was created to be. It seems to me that “program-based” and “church” are mutually exclusive. By definition the church is relationally based—first to God and then to each other. I’m thinking that when a church realizes that it is operating like a donkey (even though God is using it) it may be time to repent.
I’m loving this discussion and will continue to ponder…
Roger
I’m enjoying this discussion too!
Yeah, that is a good point, Roger. The term “church” paints a certain image in the minds of most people of the institutional structure that we are examining. Continuing to use the term “program-based church” certainly perpetuates the wrong idea. “Program-based structure” is what I meant to say. “Church” or “ecclesia” simply means “gathering.” Whether we meet in a big group, a small group, a house, park, coffee shop, parking lot or grocery store, if Jesus is the reason, then it is all “church.” Personally, I had church last night with one other guy at IHOP. That is no less church to me than having a musical worship time with structured teaching, because we came together because of Jesus and talked about what God is doing and encouraged each other in Him. The whole “church” concept is essentially remarkably simple, reaffirming our notion of “simple church.” This exactly why we named our gathering http://www.simplicitychurch.org for the sake of being mindful of that. Our intent is never to perpetuate a brand or build a structure out of it or take ownership of people as members… it is never supposed to get that complicated. Our names for things are never to be elevated and we should never let an organization name or minister name piggyback on the gospel. Whenever I see stuff like “Joe Schmoe Ministries” I just get sad that another Christian couldn’t resist piggybacking their spiritual reputation on what God is doing. To God goes ALL the glory. The implications of that are huge on the abuses of the program-based institution when used to exalt men. I stand with you in opposition to that.
I too am enjoying this discussion. Roger, you make an excellent analogy in the way we come out of our sinful behaviors only to recognize our powerlessness in our own flesh. God is the power I need and He is all that is good. Our “structures” become problematic only because we are ourselves problematic creatures. Only through God’s spiritual life, through Holy Spirit, can we claim the reality of “overcoming victory”.
That’s why I have such hope for house church. Just the fact that we can discuss openly these sorts of things is hopeful. I was little known or heard in the other churches I lived in. It saddened me to see so many like me. We all struggled, except it seemed for the few ‘chosen’ ones. The groomed ones. Somehow they seemed to have a voice, to be in the know and be involved and moving up some imaginary ladder. Such favor is not necessarily wrong in an independent sense, but it seemed ‘institutional’ -from man and not God. The tragedy was what was happening to the rest of us. In house church we all have a voice, we all are known. I am bonded by our sharing and closeness. We reveal ourselves. This is the way to overcoming victory, however you may find it, we must do it.
So many (churches, denominations, Christians) are so sure that their way of doing things is the only way.
Very little respect or creed is ever put into OTHER ways of doing things, and the “My Church is the only Church” mentality always seems to creep in.
If we are all the Body of Christ, then why do we hide out as individual entities, and refuse to get involved with other Churches and ministries that do not look EXACTLY like us?
The answer? I have been told several times that the fear is that people will LIKE the other church more, and start going there instead. I say GOOD for them if that happens!
People should be where they can be used, and feel comfortable. Instead, we have reduced Gods people to numbers, because, afterall… who is gonna pay the light bill, or the pastors salary if our numbers diminish??
How about this folks?!
TRUST GOD ALONE, and quit trying to manipulate men into doing Gods work.
WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO FAITH?? What ever happened to Believing the Word of God??
Does God allow “Worshipping our own Churches (Institutions)”?
I remember (and still believe in) the Ten commandments, and remember something about “Thou shall have no other Gods before me”
I believe a lot of groups are prone to fall into this trap, because pride can be so subtle, and always push’s God out of the picture.
I believe we tend to latch on to things (pastors, churches, etc.) as people, and this turns into a form of idolitry, because we trust IT more than we trust the God who SHOULD BE behind IT…
Kevin
I am a Lutheran minister but one who is very dissatisfied with the modern day church. I believe in Jesus and live as best as I can each day to set his example. I do believe that the most important part of the church, its people, are today overlooked in favor of the establishment. The church needs repentance in this day and age. We want to blame the paritioners for sin when in fact the church establishment needs repentance. They are guilty of their love for money more than their love for God and each other. The salt has no more flavor. Where is there a real refuge anymore for people if the church cannot provide it. Why are Christians suffering today more and more in record numbers. Is it all their fault? What are they being shown? What are they being taught? We need to clear the pretty flowers from off the front kneeling altars and have our church leadership find repentance first. Our modern churches love money more than God. If our church leaders taught the truth instead of preaching smooth things and tickling the ears all else would follow. Those with money in the church are just as accountable as the widow with her mite. Lets quit suffering and pray for some real leadership in all of our churches. Do we love one another with a complete and heartfilled love? Lets remember the scripture” If you say that you love me and hate your brother, that man is a liar.” I see no differance between the modern church and the secular world, do you? Do not modern seminaries turn out little businessmen and women instead of spiritual people who know what it is to love with the whole heart? I’m tired of playing church and am ready, as many Christians are, to begin to love and share as the early Christians did. Thank you, Rev. Dr. Dave Kanis
We must remember that we can lean upon God for all of our needs. If we are sick God is our rock and our healer. Doctors can pronounce doom and gloom upon our body but God can deliver us from every sickness. There is an old German word that we used when I was a child that was called “gemutlichkeit”. In modern times it has little meaning. In the old days in our family it meant brotherhood, fellowship, unconditional love, and such incredible love that even strangers felt like family around us. Years ago in the upper midwest farmland many of us experienced such a close community that whenever a farmer was laid up or hospitalized the neighbors would do his chores first and then go home and do their own. If a woman was likewise afflicted the neighboring women would do her housework or baking first and then go home to do their own. We took care of each other whether we were church people or not. Whether we were all Christians or not it did not matter. My Grandmother used to say, “When we quit believing that God will heal us we then needed physicians. When we quit believing that God will supply us with all knowledge we then opened schools. When we quit believing that God will settle all conflicts we created lawyers. She was not an ignorant little farm woman but a very educated humanitarian.She also knew from where all blessing come. Where is our love and nurturing today? Are these not gifts from God? Where is tenderness? Where is mercy? Where is forgiveness? We are a nation of sophisticated empty shells toiling after the buck and not even living in any form of satisfaction or wholeness. We attend church and spiritually starve to death. We give our 10% and for what? Our culture including most of our churches worship education, money, and every other form of attachment to the physical. Is it not time for a change? The world that we need to learn to relive in has a life giving, uplifting, and steady flow. If we have never experienced it we should taste of it. One is never the same after experiencing it. It is not unlike the faith that our pioneer forefathers had when settling this land. Did we ever feel like we were born in the wrong century? Do we experience a deep hoplessness at times? Maybe as we focus on the spiritual more than the physical we can feel an inward security and our spirits growing daily. In that flow one does not need a great deal of money. One does not need to be educated to the enth degree. One does not need the grandeous house or three new cars. Once we learn to flow in this peace all else becomes very dim. It is a place where you are just so happy to share with others of like mind. We don’t need to be anyone special, we are just happy to be a part of it. This is that spiritual place in God that is eternal and truly will never end. The world does not possess this truth. It is malcontent to strive to have “things”. WE don’t need things, We can be content to just be a part of that great river. In it we find health, happiness, good relationships, and a security that is not realized by those that strive amiss. Those that have abundance automatically share with those in need and are most fulfilled to do it. My prayer is that each of us will lean into our place of peace in God and with each other. We can realize our security now, not just someday.