When we baptize new believers we have taken Neil Cole’s advice which is, “baptize people as soon as possible and as publicly as possible.” In short, we throw a party. Not for the already-churched, but for the families and friends of the person being baptized. In fact, when we have baptized people recently we have many more guests present than people that we already know.
Our last baptism was a prime example, with a twist. John is a twenty-something who has come out of a background of gangs, prison, and drugs. He wanted to be baptized. We told him our standard line: “Great! Let’s throw a party and invite all of your friends and family to come. You can share what God has done in your life and we will have a bbq, baptize you, and enjoy the company.”
“Okay,” he said accepting that this must be the way it’s done. “There is only one problem though.”
“What’s that?”
“If there is no beer, then I am not sure any of my family and friends will come.”
“No problem,” we told him, “bring the beer.”
So he did. And his family and friends came. Perhaps 20 or 30 of them. Nobody got drunk or out of control. It was a “baptism” after all. Everyone had a great time. John shared his story of how God had worked in his life and many new relationships were built with those who came.
While this may unsettle some who read this, if you think it through you may just realize that baptism was, indeed, meant to be a public affair and not something that Christians do behind closed doors. Furthermore, if the public is invited to participate, then the public can be expected to do… well… whatever the public does.
For me, personally, it was by far one of the best baptisms I have ever attended!
(By the way, his mother-in-law and father-in-law baptized him who are also, currently, his spiritual parents).
Comments
31 responses to “Beer and Baptism”
Sounds like a real Matthew Party to me. Luke 5:29-32
This sounds like the perfect party of Jesus’ wonderful work. AWESOME!!
“Change the world” + “No problem,” we told him, “bring the beer”, sound like contradictory statements to me. it would seem you want to be like the world. It’s a slippery slope you are following!
Perhaps you should reconsider the graphic.
what a great story. thanks for sharing.
Great story. I love baptisms so I put the picture as my windows background. I will leave it there for a few days to remind me to pray for all this guy’s friends and family. God bless them!
I LOVE this story. Incredibly inspirational. I’m currently at a church where I think 98% of the congregation would have a heart attack if I suggested something like this. I think the time has come for a chance. They won’t change so I think I need to…
Be hugely blessed.
I couldn’t disagree with reneegrace more. What an awesome opportunity to share Christ’s love and saving grace. Thanks for sharing!!
If you want to win this world to Christ, you are going to have to sit in the smoking section. ~Neil Cole
It is amazing how the religious folks haven’t changed in the history of religious folks. If the height of our internal change comes in the form of what we drink or don’t drink, that change is barely worth noting, and certainly does not indicate a level of relationship with God.
Note to guy with the friendly advice: I don’t think God has either inspired or adopted your Spiritual priority list. See Jesus’ first miracle: water into wine. (as save the “grape juice not wine” discussion – its says wine).
Also…i dig the inflatable pool – that is rad!
Nice. Very nice. Very well done, brother.
I wish I had something to go blog about beer. Look at how your comments spike! 😉
See you in Dallas…
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN!!!!
Love that Neil Cole quote, Toby!
Praise God for what you’re doing! Thank you Jesus, please spread this spirit in the Church!
Beer is NOT what is wrong with this world!
Check out this YouTube Page on Simple Church:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ChurchPlanters
and make sure that you watch this BBC take on Simple Church from Doctor Who:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAIfaMyeWf4&watch_response
Reminds me of what happened at my friends’ church – they were outreaching to drug addicts and the Spirit was moving and many getting delivered. Attended their “church” and were strictly forbidden to smoke on church grounds. Result = end of move of Holy Spirit
“Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets” (Luke 6:26).
This is a great picture of what Baptism is supposed to be about. One person telling the people he loves what how God has saved him! Beer, smoking, these things don’t matter. If they did God would have left strict instructions for them not to be included. Worldliness has little to do with actions like drinking alcohol (which is not prohibited in scripture) and more to do with not following worldly thinking and philosophy. The point of baptism to show those in your old life that you are a new person, this sounds like an amazing picture of that. Besides Paul himself said he, “became all things to all people, so that I might win some.” He also used Greek philosophers to reach Greek people. How should we reach a culture that where it is normal for alcohol to be served without serving alcohol? The “slippery slope” mentioned above, is separation, not worldliness. If we as christians separate for everything where is the line drawn? The answer is no where. I know of an entire area in the northeast that has separated so much from each other that even two baptist churches that believe the same thing doctrinally are separated over clothing issues! This is not God-honoring!
WOW. A story like this opens up new way of looking at things. Remember when John the Baptist was baptizing Jesus. Right out there in the Jordan River. Right in public amongst the pharisee, leaders and the common folk. What a witness…..
Sorry to disagree with most of the comments, but Baptism is supposed to be a witness of new life. “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new” (2Cor5:17). What kind of a testimony of new creation he is, when the person being baptized brings the booze? It looks like a testimony of old nature to me.
If you want to win this world to Christ, you are going to have to sit in the smoking section. ~Neil Cole
It is interesting that Neil Cole did not write that we should have a smoke with the world or that we should buy them cigarettes while they listen to us.
How about buying a dose for a drug addict so that he also comes for baptism?
“What kind of a testimony of new creation he is, when the person being baptized brings the booze? It looks like a testimony of old nature to me.“
@ Vitaly
On the mode of baptism by Martin Luther:
“Besides, the Word [i.e., the Bible] is the principal part of baptism. If in an emergency there’s no water at hand, it doesn’t matter whether water or beer is used.”
Luke 7:33-34:
“For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and
you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking,
and you say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax
collectors and “sinners.”
Question: Would you stand in judgment against Martin Luther for allowing beer and consuming beer – regularly?
Question: Can a person who drinks beer or a glass of wine enter Heaven…i.e. does it play a part in a person’s salvation? Will those who don’t drink wine or beer enter Heaven for sure?
Question for Vitaly: Have you shared the gospel recently with a person who doesn’t know Jesus or a person who doesn’t fit into your version of Churchianity?
In accordance with your analysis, you would have stopped that baptism from happening, and completely missed the opportunity to share the gospel with even more people. And, guessing from your analysis, you haven’t done a lot of baptisms lately or spent much time around lost people. I would also wager that you probably spend most of your time around your church friends, who probably all agree with your view and/or shape it.
I’m not claiming perfection, but I’m certainly not going to criticize someone’s real efforts to expand the Kingdom…in fact, I’ll defend those efforts. People’s imperfect efforts are not what stop the advancement of the Kingdom of God. What stops the advancement of God is nit-picking those who are doing something, and discouraging people with legalistic filters and paralyzing people through ignoring the positive in favor of the negative.
It’s your insecurity and self-righteousness that drives your “theology,” and it’s that same personal theology that keeps you from spending time reaching out to lost people, simply because you are uncomfortable with their lifestyle and are scared of what those same “churchianity” friends might think of you. You are scared they might call you “a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and “sinners.””
Don’t be scared by what they think. No one has ever gotten AIDS from toilet seats or hand shakes – that was ignorance and fear. No one is going to get to Heaven by impressing their religious friends…but there are certainly some people that will miss Heaven by trying to fit into their social/religious circle.
More Luther Quotes:
On moderation:
“God does not forbid you to drink, as do the Turks; he permits you to drink wine and beer: he does not make a law of it. But do not make a pig of yourself; remain a human being.”
On the devil:
“Whenever the devil pesters you, at once seek out the company of friends, drink more, joke and jest, or engage in some form of merriment.”
Luther Joking about those who speak against beer:
“Whoever drinks beer, he is quick to sleep; whoever sleeps long, does not sin; whoever does not sin, enters Heaven! Thus, let us drink beer!”
“If you are tired and downhearted, take a drink; but this does not mean being a pig and doing nothing but gorging and swilling… You should be moderate and sober; this means that we should not be drunken, though we may be exhilarated.” –Martin Luther, Sermon on Soberness and Moderation
In reading the article “Beer and Baptism” and the comments other readers made, some thoughts came to mind.
By John’s baptism (immersion), he expressed his trust / faith / commitment in a way that Jesus commanded. The work of God that sets John or anyone else right with God took place some two millenniums ago in the Person of Jesus Christ. Nothing we do affects that work. By immersion in water, John was declaring and giving evidence of his faith in the saving work that God did for him in Jesus.
By baptism, John was also identifying himself with the summoned (the church) of God. He was stepping across a line that, from the perspective of his friends and family who came to watch the event, separates believers from unbelievers. John was signifying his union with Jesus and with the people whom Jesus saves.
There is nothing wrong in inviting non-believers to watch a believer visibly express his or her trust / faith through baptism. For believers, the event is cause to rejoice. Men and women of the world who reject the message of salvation would see no reason for such rejoicing. Not everyone who is of the world has heard the message of the atoning work that Jesus did for him or her. The company of people who have not heard may have included some who are among John’s family and friends. Granted, the availability of beer on such an occasion is without question unorthodox but was it sin? Can anyone cite a precedent or principle from scripture to show that having alcohol available or that the mere act of drinking alcohol is a transgression of God’s will? Obviously, if a person’s conscience convicts an individual, then for that individual it is sin. We would not expect that person to participate (share with, have fellowship in).
I am an Anglican Christian. So what’s the big deal about beer at a baptism? We have champagne to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus after the Great Vigil of Easter every year!
If you equate drinking alcoholic beverages with compromising the Gospel, I suggest you do a little research on Christ’s Church BEFORE the temperance movements in the United States and Western Europe.
And yeah, we use wine for Holy Communion every Sunday too – just like Jesus and the disciples for the Passover!
-Jim+
I am an Orthodox Catholic Christian. Not long ago the Lord entered my life and changed it forever. I was blesed to have seen him face to face. I am writing this comment to clear up the real meaning of baptism. It is our part taking of his death, burial, and ressurection. Romans Chapter 6
HOLY BAPTISM
I am an Orthodox Catholic Christian. Not long ago the Lord entered my life and changed it forever. I was blessed to have seen him face to face. I am writing this comment to clear up once and for all what the real meaning of baptism is. It is our part taking of his death, burial, and resurrection. Romans Chapter 6
Romans 6
1 Therefore what shall we say? Shall we dwell in sin, that grace be plenteous?
2 God forbid [Far be it]. For how shall we that be dead to sin, live yet therein?
3 Whether, brethren, ye know not, that whichever we be baptized in Christ Jesus, we be baptized in his death?
4 For we be together buried with him by baptism into death; that as Christ arose from death [that as Christ rose from dead] by the glory of the Father, so [and] walk we in a newness of life.
5 For if we planted together be made to the likeness of his death, also we shall be of the likeness of his rising again;
6 witting this thing, that our old man is crucified together, that the body of sin be destroyed, that we serve no more to sin.
7 For he that is dead [to sin], is justified from sin.
8 And if we be dead with Christ, we believe that also we shall live together with him;
9 witting that Christ, rising again from death [rising again from dead], now dieth not, death shall no more have lordship on him.
10 For that he was dead to sin, he was dead once; but that he liveth, he liveth to God.
11 So [and] ye deem yourselves to be dead [soothly] to sin, but living to God in Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Therefore reign not sin in your deadly body, that ye obey to his covetings.
13 Neither give ye your members arms of wickedness to sin, but give ye yourselves to God, as they that live of dead men, and your members arms of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not have lordship over you; for ye be not under the law, but under grace.
15 What therefore? Shall we do sin [Shall we sin], for we be not under the law, but under grace? God forbid [Far be it].
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye give yourselves servants to obey to, ye be servants of that thing, to which ye have obeyed [Know ye not, for to whom ye give you servants to obey, ye be servants of that thing, to whom ye have obeyed], either of sin to death, either of obedience to righteousness?
17 But I thank God, that ye were servants of sin; but ye have obeyed of heart into that form of teaching, in which ye be betaken.
18 And ye delivered from sin, be made servants of righteousness.
19 I say that thing that is of man, for the unsteadfastness of your flesh [for the infirmity, or unstableness, of your flesh]. But as ye have given your members to serve to uncleanness, and to wickedness into wickedness, so now give ye your members to serve to righteousness into holiness.
20 For when ye were servants of sin, ye were free of righteousness.
21 Therefore what fruit had ye then in those things, in which ye shame now? For the end of them is death.
22 But now ye delivered from sin, and made servants to God, have your fruit into holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death; the grace of God is everlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The reaction to hearing about individuals drinking alcohol or the availability of alcohol at a gathering to witness a believer’s expression of faith by immersion (or in baptism) depends on one’s point of reference. Someone accustomed to having alcoholic beverages at certain religious activities might wonder what the big deal is, as expressed in one of the comments. On the other hand, a person whose history has been with a religious body where the predominant teaching has been that drinking alcohol is wrong would have a different reaction. Because of one’s distinctive religious heritage, however right or wrong that history may be, the person’s conscious objects to it. Some may object because they see themselves or others in their fellowship as recovering alcoholics and do not want to expose anyone intentionally to temptation.
Having said all that, the central theme of the post “Beer and Baptism” is not to answer the question of whether Christ’s disciples have liberty in Christ to drink alcohol or to allow alcohol to be present at a gathering. The article speaks of baptism (immersion) as a time of celebration and presents the thought of opening the gathering to unbelievers with the intent of possibly speaking the word of reconciliation to them.
As to the real meaning of baptism, no one single verse or text contains the sum teaching of what the Holy Spirit reveals of baptism. We need to be willing to take into account other passages.
For additional thoughts on baptism (immersion), please consider going to the following site; http://ourlordsekklesia.blogspot.com/2008/07/be-baptized.html (click or cut and past).
Very good!
This is a fantastic story!
If beer was not allowed, then his family would not have heard first hand the public testimony. His family would have not experienced unconditional love from believers. Everyone doing their part in the body.
I don’t think this is a slippery slope, this is revolutionary! Meeting people where they are. Isn’t that what Jesus would have done? Meeting us where we at?
And yes, this does sound like a Matthew party.
Keep it up!
“Posted by: Toby | June 14, 2008 at 05:20 PM
(as save the “grape juice not wine” discussion – its says wine).”
“Posted by: Rich Amick | July 19, 2008 at 08:08 AM
And yeah, we use wine for Holy Communion every Sunday too – just like Jesus and the disciples for the Passover!”
You cannot dismiss proper translation of Biblical texts to make right what is clearly wrong in scripture. Obviously the word wine could have a different meaning 2,000 years ago, or even 400 years ago. Besides when Jesus and His disciples celebrated the passover, they used grape juice, as anything fermented was forbidden during the passover.
It may not be a sin to actually, physically drink a drink of alcohol. However scripture is very clear that it is a SIN to cause a weaker brother to stumble and sin. Though we have liberty, we are not to use liberty for selfish reasons. What if someone who is a new believer attended that baptism and upon seeing “more-mature” believers drink alcohol, justified their own drinking which then turned to drunkeness, which IS a sin. Are the “more-mature” believers not then responsible for causing a weaker brother to stumble. Remember brothers and sisters, all things may be lawful, but not all things are right or expedient to do.
it seems to me Jesus 1st maricle involved wine… and it was the good stuff.. I had an experience in the “hip” part of KC last winter that changed my life… following;
Lately I’ve been hangin’ out with some people Jesus loves… weird part is we’re not hangin’ in the “normal” environment… last Friday we hung out at McCoy’s in Westport, next to the bar in the smoking section…
He was there because He likes to hang with people He loves….. The place was dark and smoky, the music was “secular” the language was worldly… and there He was… go figure… the creator of the Universe in a bar in Westport on a Friday night… funny He didn’t seem offended by the smoke or the music, or even the language, or the overall “spirit of the place”…. Since he lives in me I can pretty well tell when He’s offended and He wasn’t.
Friday evening made Him remember that first dinner at Matthew’s house, more a party than a dinner for a King. Both then and now He was with people He loves… and boy did they want to get to know Him….
I think He wasn’t offended because He already dealt with all those offenses 2000 years ago when He was crucified…. That day He died for them even when they didn’t know Him… ’cause he knew then that in January of 2008, on a Friday night they’d be looking for a better life.. and He wanted to get all the offenses out of the way so a real loving relationship could start up whenever they were willing to get to know Him..more to come.
Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
I love Jesus!
אני אוהבת את ישוע!
I am told that in certain countries, like Germany, people routinely drink beer in church. I think this drinking thing is very cultural.
Mazel tov! I agree! And, as a former pastor & a Jewish Believer, I never understood the hang up in His Church over beer & wine. I know from experience that shul, shabbat & wine go together like burgets & fries! And, as Jesus the Messiah was Jewish, as were ALL His followers for the first 12-15 or so yrs, I knew two things without question:
1) WINE is the proper sacramental element IF THERE’S NO QUESTION of weaker brethren, because it was WINE in the Upper Room; &
2) As mikvas were private Jewish baptisms for personal sanctification, born of a tainted religious system He fulfilled, then surely, Believer/Witness BAPTISM MUST BE PUBLIC & speak to HIS sinlessness & our imbued status!